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HID Lights - different sizes & prices

Printed From: Sensi Seeds Shop
Category: Sensi Seeds
Forum Name: Lighting
Forum Discription: Different lamps and systems; What to use in different stages and spaces
URL: http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=123
Printed Date: 22 November 2019 at 12:04


Topic: HID Lights - different sizes & prices
Posted By: Tompa
Subject: HID Lights - different sizes & prices
Date Posted: 01 October 2004 at 15:11

Have been using some 600W hps the cheapest they come. They seem to give less light than my old Philips 400W. Can this be true? sounds weird but for me it seems to be a fact. Are there better lights? What are u guys using?



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NL#5xH



Replies:
Posted By: seeroseero
Date Posted: 01 October 2004 at 17:05

Hi Tompa, Well my oppinion is that 600 is the way...

Here is some info for you.

About Light(s)


There are three major types of lighting systems available right now:


incandescent, fluorescent, and high intensity discharge.

Incandescent lights are horribly inefficient (especially the screw-in "grow bulb"
type) and really not an acceptable option for plant growth. Although they are
inexpensive to purchase, their cost of operation makes them the costliest
source of light.



Fluorescents:


Until the early 1980's most indoor growers used fluorescent lights to illuminate
their garden. These tubes have tremendous advantages over incandescents.
They emit about 3 times as much light as an incandescent (given the same
wattage), and the light spectrum is one that plants can use more effectively.
However, they do certainly have their limitations. Light is emitted over a large
area, so it is not concentrated. Because of this, the lights have to be hung
very close to the plants (usually about 1 foot from the plants), and constantly
moved to accommodate plant growth. This makes garden maintenance rather
difficult, even when the lamps are hung on chains. Florescents are, however,
very useful in cloning, and starting seedlings. Because in these stages, a plant
is not growing vertically very quickly, the disadvantages of moving the lights
are reduced. They also put out a more gentle light than the HID lamps, and
release less heat.

The fact that they produce less heat is very important to those growing in
enclosed and not-especially-well ventilated spaces. If you choose to use
fluorescents, it is best to purchase the 'coolwhite' variety. The ones that
are sold as grow lamps (including grow-lux, vitalite, etc.) are much less
efficient than a standard fluorescent, and just do not put out enough light
to be useful. The slightly different spectrum produced by these lamps does
nothing for most plants. Some growers have reported excellent results by
using a mixture of cool-white and warm-white lamps in a florescent fixture.



High Intensity Discharge Lamps (HID's)


High intensity discharge lamps are easier to use, and more efficient. Low
wattage HIDs are sometimes sold for household outdoor use. Large Wattage
lamps are used for lighting streets, parking lots, stadiums and other large
areas. They come in two basic flavors:

  • METAL HALIDES or MH lamps emit a white light that looks slightly bluish.
    They are used to light stadiums, convention centers, gymnasiums, and
    other large areas where a natural looking light is desired.

  • HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM (SON - T) or HPS lamps emit a pink or amber light.
    They are used for lighting parking lots and other areas where the color
    of the light is not important. HPS units are much more efficient than
    MH ones, producing more light and less heat per watt of energy consumed.
    They are often used alone with no detrimental effect on the plants,
    and will promote faster plant growth than MH lamps during both
    vegetative growth and flowering. Combinations of bulbs are not required,
    as the HPS lamp does produce all of the light spectrums necessary for
    healthy growth.

  • There is also the SON-T-AGRO HPS bulb. Basically, the designers
    took a 400w HPS lamp, and added another 30W element to it, However, this
    new element puts out blue light, to help fill in the parts of the spectrum that
    a standard HPS is missing. I've never actually seen one of these bulbs,
    so I can't tell you about how efficient they are, but some Hydroponic growers
    think they're terriffic.

MH lamps are available in 175, 200, 400 and 1000 watt sizes. HPS lamps come
in 50, 75, 150, 400 and 1000 watt sizes. San Agro comes in 430w only, but
it works with a 400w HPS ballast. Each lamp requires its own ballast, which
comes with the fixtures that are designed to use these lamps, and are also
available separately.



The following chart shows how much light/lumens each lamp emits and the
area that it covers adequately:

Lamp

# of Lumens

Sq. Ft

4'FL (CoolWhite-40W)

2,960

1-2

8'FL (CoolWhite-75W)

5,800

2-4

MH 175W

14,000

5-10

MH 400W

40,000

12-20

HPS 70W

7,600

3-6

HPS 150W

16,000

6-11

HPS 400W

50,000

15-30

 
 

General 'Grow' Light Information


Quantity of light


Light intensity is measured in Lumens (lm). During the flowering period, hemp functions
best at a high level of at least 40,000 lm per m2. Quantities of light exceeding 50,000
lm/m2 are a waste of energy. About 75 to 80% of the number of a bulb's lumens are
actually available. An example: An agro-bulb produces 52,000 lm. Actually, this means
0.8 x 52,000 = 44,000 lm. This means that one 400 Watt ballast produces enough light
for one m2.



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http://www.yele.org">


Posted By: Tompa
Date Posted: 05 October 2004 at 16:24
Yepps, but have anybody experienced the difference between cheap HPS lights to philips?

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NL#5xH


Posted By: nl5haze
Date Posted: 05 October 2004 at 16:56

there is a difference between cheap hps and phillips

first thing. lumen cheap bulb 32000 lumens  phillips 55000 lm

second. burning time, in one year a phillips will loose its lm depending on the total of burning hours, this is the same for a cheap hps.....

a cheaper bulb will be "burnt out" quicker.  when your light intensity is below 25000lm it is time to buy a new bulb

so......cheap bulbs you buy two each year

 phillips bulbs one bulb on year

have fun

 



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Sensi Borneo Diving Resort & Tours

http://www.sensiborneo.com - Dive adventures in Sabah Malaysian Borneo


Posted By: Tompa
Date Posted: 06 October 2004 at 13:02

Thanks for that nl5Haze. And what about the ballasts? And the reflectors?

My cheap 600's get hot enough to light up a joint on, while my Philips is luke warm.

My guess is that some of the 600watts are conwerted to heat instead of light?

And surely a good reflector is very important also.



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NL#5xH


Posted By: hydrogenum
Date Posted: 15 October 2004 at 12:56

it is very important the color of the radiations...

i think it is important to have an appropriate spectrum of color...

Choose a bulb for agro-culture, not the first HPS you find on your way...

one solution from the beginning to the end with one bulb HPS

Philips son-t agro (270/430/1080W)

Osram vialox nav-t (the same but cheaper!!!-i don't know if the 1000W exists!!!)

Or another solution is to "find" an MH (blue-white) for vegetative growing and a simple yellow/red HPS for flowering...it is important to have a lot of lumens...special bulbs make special light

peace



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we can go far away...


Posted By: Tompa
Date Posted: 18 October 2004 at 13:20
Now I can really see the difference on lights. I have a flowerroom with both cheap 600W HPS and Philips 400W. The buds under my 400W is much bigger than those under my sh*tty 600W lights. Dont try to save money on cheap lighting, you get what you pay for. It's not just the watts. The Ballast and reflector are very important.

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NL#5xH


Posted By: hydrogenum
Date Posted: 18 October 2004 at 16:25

hi seeeeeeeerrrrroooooooo

why do you give infos about 150W bulbs?

isn't there in nl bulbs of 250 W?

i think they are the best solution for a little place !!!

my osram vialox nav-t 250W (32000 lumens) costs 18 EURO...and also it does not spend a lot of electricity...

32000 lumen in a place L 120 H 180 Deep 60 cm is perfect...and with this bulb in my gbox the temperature is 24-25°C

just one thing: what kind of electricity have you got in nederland?

220 V 50-60 HZ or 110 V

stay high



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we can go far away...


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 01 December 2004 at 15:22

There may be 150w HID bulbs, but they aren't worth using unless your space is so small that it absolutely demands it. In those circumstances you might be better off using a 125w compact fluorescent.


Everyone can afford to run a 400w light - a small vacuum cleaner consumes about 1500w (though, admittedly, you don't run a vacuum cleaner for 12 hours per day, unless you have OCD).

The same goes for 250w HID bulbs. They are available, but there's not much point. A 400w will only cost a bit more and will consume just over 50% more power.

The bottom line is that a 400w lamp can produce bigger buds than is possible with a 250w lamp.

A good 400w lamp and ballast should not generate too much heat. You could definitely keep a 400w in a closet grow-room.

32,000 lumens is enough for the space you describe, but optimum lighting for indoor cannabis is 40,000 to 50,000lm per m/sq. This can be achived with a 400w HPS (or AGRO) lamps per m/sq or a 600w HPS lamp for each 2m/sq.

You should remember that only about 80% of a bulb's rated lumens are available in real life. So, from a new 32K lumen bulb, your plants are likely to actually receive about 25.6K lumens

Europe uses a 220v power supply.



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http://sensiseeds.com/s-en/cannabis-seeds/auto - Auto-flowering http://sensiseeds.com/cannabis-seeds - Cannabis Seeds!
No growing questions by PM, please!


Posted By: hydrogenum
Date Posted: 01 December 2004 at 21:36

ok

reactor + starter = 50 euros (both for 250 and 400 W)

bulbs are not so different in cost...you're right to say is convenient a 400 W one...

another thing is that i got THAT place, and i tried with an 400W (a friend of mine gave me a coltivation HPS)------> 30°C is not ok

i gave that 400W one to an other fiend of mine that is still growing home...in a bigger place

 

returning to the topic, in italy if the bill of electricity goes very up, the society that gives you electricity notice the police you are getting too much...and so they send an ispector...the same thing for the water...gas...exxxxeteraaa

in italy electricity costs a lot...more than everyone in europe i think, or sure in first places...with a 400W bulb and 1 fun(ventilator) in italy you can spend 100 euros in two month...absurde

 

with 250 got less but spend less

 

p.s..s.ss. try to sleep with a 400 one and a fun continuing alll night in your bedroom...i'm doing it but with 250 i can...i think not with 400

 

water, LIGHT, and CO2 guys

good growin

good life



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we can go far away...


Posted By: seeroseero
Date Posted: 03 December 2004 at 16:50

I agree with you that much that sleeping with ANY background/ humming/ low frenquency tone is bad for you had man... Screwes you up.

What concerned the power. If you growing a bit bigger, in holland and definately Amsterdam you could considder applying for a 360 connection at your electricity supplier. Start a little company or non profit organization doing a lot of computer work or as a studio.

I believe I heard some fireman/ policman say one time....

"I'd rather have them using a proper electric connection, than overload a 'regular' connection. This due to the enormous fire hazard. In cities like Amsterdam where all the houses are so close to eachother ANY fire might be fatal for a complete block of houses."

Is a 'Power/ Business' line in Italy not an option? Here it is. I guess also because you can use it as a write off, if I'm not mistaken.

Ciao for now



Posted By: milehigh
Date Posted: 03 January 2005 at 17:45
There are growers where I live that can get 70 to 100 grams from a 70 watt HID light. I know many many growers that are very successful with 150s and 250s. In a perfect world(Holland) where you have no worries, a 400 or bigger is really nice, and will give you much more product, but there is nothing wrong with getting the most for the least.

Good luck with your grow. I am growing under 2X150w HPS, and doing just fine. I bet I end up with well over 150 grams per cycle.

milehigh

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Posted By: hydrogenum
Date Posted: 08 January 2005 at 23:08

positive man...



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we can go far away...



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