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ruderalis indica

Printed From: Sensi Seeds Shop
Category: Sensi Seeds
Forum Name: Seeds, Genes & Strains
Forum Discription: Choosing the strain to suit you
URL: http://forum.sensiseeds.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=1401
Printed Date: 14 December 2019 at 09:57


Topic: ruderalis indica
Posted By: hidingtree
Subject: ruderalis indica
Date Posted: 05 May 2006 at 04:04
    hello every one . hopefully some one could help with this question . ok so here goes . if ruderalis indica is crossed with ruderalis indica ... the possible outcome could be : 1) indica not autoflowering , or 2) auto flowering straight ruderalis , or 3) ruderalis indica with same or similar properties started with . thanks for any info .



Replies:
Posted By: enkigooroo
Date Posted: 16 May 2006 at 22:58
Hi hidingtree,
 
Since the Ruderalis Indica is a F-1 hybrid-(I assume), crossing them would result in a batch of F-2 seeds with the possible offspring  ranging from pure Indica to pure Ruderalis and everything inbetween. A great way to look for some new combinations, if you have the time.
 
Cheers,


Posted By: hidingtree
Date Posted: 17 May 2006 at 02:22
thanks , enkigooroo. that is what i kind of assumed . i have read about alot of people crossing lowryder (a ruderalis combination (i think))and complaining of low potency from the resulting seeds . also a friend of mine many years ago had a strain he referred to as an indica ruderalis which was very potent ..... not sure if it was f-1 or f-2 ......
cheers.


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 27 May 2006 at 18:15

I think the most likely outcomes would be:

a) an f2 generation that is very similar to the f1 generation, with all the features expressed by the individual parent plants. or

b) an f2 generation with 50% of plants almost indistinguishable from the f1 generation, 25% photosensitive Indicas and 25% leaning more towards the original Ruderalis ancestor.

If seeds are made from a single selected male and female, the first option is more likely.

If all males are left in the garden to freely pollinate all females, the likelihood of the second option increases.

Even with uncontrolled pollination, the first option is still a strong possibility, as the f1 generation of Ruderalis Indica is usually very uniform, so the parents which contributed genes to the f2 seeds should have most features in common.

Another reason that the first option is more likely has to do with the breeding history of the Ruderalis strains.

Going back to the old Seed Bank catalogues (mid 1980s), there were four Ruderalis strains on offer. Of those four, the two that are still available today are Ruderalis Indica and Ruderalis Skunk.

Ruderalis Skunk is a more powerful hybrid - the original Ruderalis cultivar, bred with a powerful, dominant Skunk. The result is a much more potent strain that displays the auto-flowering tendency in 50% of plants grown from seed.

The fact that auto-flowering is consistent in the Ruderalis Indica hybrid suggests that trait was dominant in the original crossing, and is therefore likely to be dominant in the f2 generation as well.

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http://sensiseeds.com/s-en/cannabis-seeds/auto - Auto-flowering http://sensiseeds.com/cannabis-seeds - Cannabis Seeds!
No growing questions by PM, please!


Posted By: AmeriSkunk
Date Posted: 03 June 2006 at 01:43
Ganja, are all ruderalis plants auto-flowering?


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 03 June 2006 at 11:27
Wild ones - I suppose they must be.

Auto-flowering is the only distinct trait that marks Ruderalis out as a potentially different species (and this point is still debated, 'ruderalis' may just be another regional adaption by the supremely adaptable cannabis plant).

Without the auto-flowering characteristic, I'd think that a wild Ruderalis plant would be almost indistinguishable from a non-psychoactive plant with an Indica growth pattern.

Hybrids made from Ruderalis plants will display the autoflowering tendency in varying amounts -from all or most offspring auto-flowering, to few or none.


-------------
http://sensiseeds.com/s-en/cannabis-seeds/auto - Auto-flowering http://sensiseeds.com/cannabis-seeds - Cannabis Seeds!
No growing questions by PM, please!


Posted By: hidingtree
Date Posted: 07 June 2006 at 05:11
    thanks for the info to all .... recently began an experiment with sensi's ruderalis indica .... (yet only 3 of the 16 seeds germinated (they were in an old style sensi envelope not the new packaging ) however , i ordered 2. 1 was in new pack so i tried the older ones with low success rate as stated . i'll let y'all know how the next ones work out ... where i live can be a tricky grow season so some super fast auto flowering crosses would be very beneficial .... ~hidingtree


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 07 June 2006 at 14:43
You ordered 2 packs from Sensi and received an old pack together with a new pack?
Or were they ordered at different times?

If the old pack was from Sensi, I'd recommend that you email info@sensiseeds.com with you order details and a description of your germination technique and your results.


Posted By: hidingtree
Date Posted: 08 June 2006 at 12:45
hey ganja , thanks ... but unfortunately i orderered from a seed vendor in england because i didn't think sensi would ship to united states . anyway i've been germinating cannabis seeds for years using this simple method with 100% success unless the seeds are not viable ... soaked seeds in water (until they pop open usually 24-48 hrs.)then place them in a moist paper towel ,this then goes into a cup , bowl ,or plastic bag which is then sealed with plastic wrap or the zipper seal on the bag . i wait until they are about 1-2 cm. sticking out of the shell and then they go into the soil .... works well every time .~hidingtree


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 08 June 2006 at 14:32

Duh, silly me. I didn't even look at your 'Location'.

You're right, of course, Sensi is unable to send to the
US under any circumstances.

We see the advice about soaking/submerging seeds repeated quite a lot online and even in some grow-books.

While it's possible to start seeds in this way and have them succeed, Sensi Seeds always recommends against the practice of leaving them in water.

Seeds can absorb all the water they need to begin germinating from the moist towel method, and moist (not saturated) towels kept between two plates have almost no chance of denying the seeds access to air (which can kill them). With this in mind, it's best no to enclose the plates/moist tissue in an air-tight container or bag.

For plants at all stages - germinating seeds, larger plants and rooting clones - an aerated medium is very important for healthy root-growth.

For particularly old seeds, a soak may be beneficial, but you shouldn't receive old seeds if you're going to the trouble of buying them.

Also, whichever method you use to coax the first millimetres of root from the shell, once it's out, pre-germination has been achieved and the seeds can be sown.

If submerging seeds has caused them to germinate, they don't need to spend any time sitting in moist tissue. The root-tip could be spending this time establishing itself in the growing medium.
Equally, seeds that have been put directly into moist tissue can be planted in the medium soon after the first root-tip has emerged.

There are different schools of thought about how long the root-tip should be before planting. It's fine to plant seeds when just 1-3mm of root has emerged from the shell. In this case, it's usually better to sow seeds with the root-tip pointing upwards, as the initial root typically makes a 180 degree turn after emerging.

If the root is longer than about 10mm when planting, it's probably best to plant with the root pointing downwards.

One issue with waiting till roots are longer is that the emerging tip is the beginning of the main tap-root and as soon as it's a few millimetres long, it starts growing microscopic sub-roots all along its length.

If a germinated seed is kept in moist paper for too long, the initial root may have produced dozens or hundreds of barely-visible roots which have grown into the tissue.
When this happens, removing the seed from the tissue causes all these roots to break. Such damage probably won't kill the seedling, but it does cause significant stress at a time when the plant is particularly vulnerable.

I think that this potential for damage is the reason that the method of germination by submersion is recommended by some sources - there's nothing for the micro-roots to grow into (and submerged seeds certainly shouldn't stay in water long enough for the initial root to produce them).

But performing germination with moist medium and plates does not have to lead to this damage either, as long as seeds are removed from the tissue when their initial root is only a few millimetres long.

Two important considerations for growers who are still really keen on using the submersion method:
 - The water that the seeds are kept in should be in a dark place, as roots should not emerge into the light.
- Seeds should be removed from water as soon as a root tip is visible and should then be transferred directly to the growing medium.

Overall, Sensi does not recommend submersion. Moist medium kept between two plates provides all the factors necessary for optimum germination. If seeds do not germinate with this method, it can be assumed that they're not viable.

If seeds don’t germinate after submersion, the cause of their failure is less certain. It could be that they were simply non-viable or that the germination method led to the poor results.



Posted By: hidingtree
Date Posted: 10 June 2006 at 16:46
ok . right on . so i think most of my question here about the breeding or crossing of ruderalis indica to itself and other strains has been pretty well answered . any one know how long ago sensi stopped using the older style packaging ? this was the issue . the age of the seeds .not so much the germination method . as stated germination of seeds has not been much of a problem except when they may have been dried out from being old . as in this case ... i e-mailed the re- seller yet haven't gotten a response yet . and i have yet to try the newer pack. thought i would try the older one first . i'll post how the next batch is when i have the room to try them . thanks ,~hidingtree
    


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 10 June 2006 at 17:11
The new packaging was launched right at the end of 2005, so seeds in original packaging may still be fresh.
We give seeds a two year lifespan (quite a conservative estimate - if they're kept properly they may last much longer), so any original packed seeds produced in the second half of 2004 onwards are still what we'd call fresh, assuming they've been kept cool, dark and dry for this time.

AFAIK, we did invite all resellers to return their original-packaged seeds to exchange for the new ones. I think most resellers have made the change already, though there may be resellers who get their seeds through a chain of middlemen, and have not caught up yet.

As for germination, when all's said and done I'd stick to the plates-and-tissue method for any purchased seed.

Submerging isn't automatically a recipe for disaster, but it adds an unnecessary element of risk, when the same saoking can be accomplished with wet tissue.

All the foolish discussion on this thread (that has since been moved elsewhere), basically had that point at the centre. It may be possible to germinate seeds in any number of ways, including bathing them in radiation. But if a method offers no extra advantage and adds an element of risk, it's best to stick to the tried and true method.

If you're using lots and lots of naturally (freely) obtained seeds, it may be less important to take the greatest care, especially if you're looking for the most vigourous plants from a selection of hundreds or thousands of seeds.

In all other cases, I'd favour the safest method.




Posted By: hidingtree
Date Posted: 11 June 2006 at 04:21
thanks ganja ...that was a bit entertaining though (the back and forth )and i agree if seeds are not expendable why risk it ? i'll stick with the tried and true method also . as for "ameriskunk" we need to remember where he (and i ) are from so yes indeed we may be " troubled " it is kind of scary(in amerika) ... especially the laws where he(or she) is in okie land (oklahoma)the laws there are worse than where i live as they are variable by state ... some are basically "decriminalized " where the penalties are not as severe as " zero tolerance states " where one can be put in jail for a year for a joint or a cannabis seed .... for growing cannabis in oklahoma one faces 2-20 years in jail for anything less than 1000 plants ....pretty sad ..... where i live ..." manufacture " as it is referred to (cultivation) carries a punishment of 1 to 5 years in jail and $5000american dollars fine . so i pray for ameriskunk so he gets his (or her ) self sorted out in the mind .. ok peace to all .... if it stops raining where i live for a week or so then outdoors we go! cheers ,~hidingtree
    


Posted By: Mutant
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 11:17
Hi Hidingtree,
 
A friend also got some Ruderalis Indica in old style packaging via the UK
with poor germination & some minor deformities due to age of the the seed,
which self-corrected once there were a few more sets of leaves growing.
 
He then did the following with the rest of the seeds to improve germination:
 
1) Sterilized some soil in the oven @ 250 degrees C for an hour or so
     in a metal tray covered by foil with some holes to let the steam out.
     (open the windows to let out the smell :)
 
2) Put the COOLED sterile soil into a pot & planted the remaining seeds
     into the dry soil.
 
3) Burned some small sticks & grass in a small metal can with small air-holes
     an inch above the bottom until there was a nice little pile of glowing red ashes.
     A small amount of water was then poured into the can with the still-glowing
     ashes to QUICKLY extinguish the ash.
     The ash was then crushed & further mixed with the water & left to soak
      for a few hours.
 
4) The water was then strained & roughly filtered using paper towels.
     This makes a 'quick & dirty' version of 'smoke-water' which promotes
     fast, vigorous germination. This technique was originally discovered
     for germinating fire-dependent native plants that require a fire to pass
     over before they will germinate.
     This was found to also work well to improve germination of other plants
     which are NOT fire dependent, so it seems to be a genetic survival trait
     to out-compete neighbouring plants after a fire has reduced competition.
 
5) The yellowish 'smoke-water' was then put into a small 1/2 litre mist-spray
     bottle then sprayed over the soil containing the seeds until moist enough.
 
The rest of the seeds germinated very fast & were much thicker, healthier
and without deformities. This works very well with many plant species.
 
Using this method he has even germinated some much older seeds
that would not germinate at all by any other methods that he had tried.
 
I hope this helps :)
 
- Regards.


Posted By: dread
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 14:47
just a quick note ,i have been using a few seeds every year out of a packet (old)of superskunk that i picked up about 3 years ago in the dam and again this year all 3 sprouted ive only 3 left so ill experement some more next year,but there doesnt seem to be a problem this year
 
also my low ryders i got dont seem to have the autoflowering trait  but are flowering nicely ive put 1 out in the green house with a male low ryder .male super skunk and male sensi skunk ,im hoping for some seeds a little messing around ,does anyone know if these seeds will work or be any good
Dreadweed leafjoint


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 15:04
If the female LR is a good (potent) plant, you could get lots of viable seeds, some of which should display some interesting traits and combinations of traits from the parents.

With three pollen-fathers, you will probably get a massive amount of variation in the offspring and seeds in almost every calyx.

If you do get some spectacular plants from these seeds, it may be impossible to determine which male plant donated the pollen, but this would only really matter if you were trying to stabilise a strain from the offspring.


Posted By: americano
Date Posted: 12 July 2006 at 17:40
stabilising the strain is what we pay sensi seeds for.

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I REMAIN
U KYIN SWAN


Posted By: Mutant
Date Posted: 14 July 2006 at 03:35
Do they stabilize or hybridize?


Posted By: americano
Date Posted: 15 July 2006 at 18:08
Goed moses mon, if you do that you have some serious time on yoru hands, I can barley stay up with my 12th generation indicas form hawaii, I have now gotten to the point where I have only 1 mother right now, and broke a huge branch today, oh well, I have taken 16 clones form her, and have 3 non sexed aged 1 month plants, and since our Hollandia weeather is so kick ass right now, I dropped my last 11 seeds in the dirt two days back.

This plant has the huge white flowers with only a hint of orange, untill later before picking.
I will get some pics on asap. Super sweet, no heavy smell till late when it starts to dry out before I pick, It gets really crystally, and the typical hawaiian is like nothing else you can find anywhere around europe, unless your plugged into the Islands like me.


I mean all seeds that come from anything that says hawaiian, is usally just some california orange bud, It is possible to get the red to come out of this pure strain, but in this climate and my lat 52 plus degress, I cant see it happening, the soil is also needed, and since I can not  replicate the exact scenario, I cant get the red to come out of this plant.


But I am trying.


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I REMAIN
U KYIN SWAN


Posted By: serial#9
Date Posted: 18 July 2006 at 12:02
Sorry


Posted By: fast pine
Date Posted: 04 May 2008 at 02:21
I just got my Ruderalis Indica in the mail today!!!!...Im very excited...I too plan to cross(inbreed) the RI....
 
 
My hopes are to have a bulk stash of seed for the 2009 outdoor season. I need the RI seeds due to the extreemly high altitude I grow at. The season is super short, ending early/mid september....
 
My only question is....Will the seed stock display any phenotypes that finnish later than september?


Posted By: fast pine
Date Posted: 10 May 2008 at 17:00
Any ideas on the september finnish?.....


Posted By: bennybjc
Date Posted: 11 May 2008 at 20:27
definatly listen to ganja i get a 95% success rate using the wet paper towel and 2 plates method i would not do it any other way...i guess the other 5% are dud seeds...


Posted By: bucky76
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 13:19
i bought the ruderalis indica  last january , in its original new packing.
te growshop ordered it especially for me.. so it should be a fresh batch..
BUT...no visible flowers yet.+90 days vegging.
if this is uncommon...say so - i will post pics..with current date by newspaper...

feels like i wasted money on seeds, and the project , and losing valuable time during this pre veg season at the moment ( cant plant much more than five where i live...and as said : 7 are alive..)

can i expect flowering anytime soon , or should i invest precious time in my next balcony/windowsill project?

%3cxlamation



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best herb is never sold


Posted By: Ganja
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 13:53
I have little experience with Ruderalis Indica outside. I think Sarah Louise had some RI that were either not autoflowering as quickly as expected, or seemed to be somewhat affected by the photoperiod.

How big are the plants after 90 days of being alive?

Assuming they are healthy and a decent size, I would be surprised if you can't see some sort of pre-flowers on them by now. This would be likely even in a non -autoflowering plant that had been in veg for 90 days. You should be able to spot males and female if you look closely at the bracts with a magnifier

Are they on your windowsill, your balcony, or are they moved between the two locations?

Lastly, I don't really follow your point about wasting time and money. If these plants aren't unhealthy and aren't being kept in appalling conditions, they should now be of a decent size and they will flower. 

Starting again would be a waste of time and money when you have (presumably) healthy plants in the sun right now.

The aim of using the autoflowering trait of Ruderalis in the short northern summers is to time it so that the flowers are being produced in the brightest, sunniest months - May to July. Note also that the finishing time given for RI is September.

All in all, I think it's too soon to be calling your project a failure. You have plants that will flower, and should in fact flower at the ideal time of the season.




-------------
http://sensiseeds.com/s-en/cannabis-seeds/auto - Auto-flowering http://sensiseeds.com/cannabis-seeds - Cannabis Seeds!
No growing questions by PM, please!


Posted By: sarah louise
Date Posted: 22 April 2009 at 14:23
Some pictures would really help.


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What doesn't kill me just makes me stranger...


Posted By: GuerillaG
Date Posted: 03 July 2009 at 10:40
hiding tree your original guess was accurate .

crossing ruderalis with itself could potentially yield offspring
of Pure Ruderalis Pure indica or anywhere in between.



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